InKredible Kids
A podcast with Kosher content geared toward empowering Jewish kids of all ages. We interview kids from around the world and have many interactive segments for all kids to enjoy. While having fun and learning new skills, kids will hear about responsibility, empathy, confidence, and more!
InKredible Kids
Grieving a Grandparent: A Kid's Guide to Processing Loss and Empathy
Avi from London shares his journey of loss after his grandfather's passing three years ago, while author Sarah Miriam Gross discusses her book "Invisible Tribe" for children coping with parental loss and offers guidance on supporting those grieving.
• Avi describes his close relationship with his grandfather "Poppy" and the painful experience of losing him to cancer during COVID
• Avi reflects on his healing process and how we're given "the power to forget such sadness that we won't be sad all the time"
• Sarah Miriam Gross explains how her personal experience of losing her father in first grade inspired her book "Invisible Tribe"
• The concept of the "invisible tribe" represents children who share the experience of loss but cannot be identified from the outside
• Sarah Miriam provides practical advice for being a supportive friend to someone who has experienced loss, emphasizing treating them normally rather than like "fragile crystal"
• Different children respond to grief in unique ways - some maintain normalcy, some constantly reminisce, others become overly serious
• Sensitivity involves balancing normal treatment with awareness of potentially painful topics
• Avi maintains connection to his grandfather by saying brachos aloud and inviting others to respond with "amen"
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Hey kids, welcome back to the next episode of the Incredible Kids Podcast. My name is Moritz Ciri and I will be your host. Through this incredible journey, we are going to meet many incredible kids. They are going to share with us their stories, some of them super cool and different like you've never heard before, and some you may say are just ordinary, but all of them incredible. If you have great ideas, email me today at ikidspodcasts at gmailcom. And now it's time for Incredible Kids. It's time for the joke of the day. Yay, today's joke is brought to you by Goldie M from Silver Spring, maryland.
Speaker 2:What's the difference between a teacher and a train? One says spit out your gum, the other says chew, chew, chew.
Speaker 1:Hello everybody and welcome back to the next episode of Incredible Kids Podcast. So much going on and I have so much to say. But first of all, we're heading into Pesach season and here at Incredible Kids there's always a lot of excitement around Yontif time. We always have special segments of the podcast, so look out for something extra special coming up on Chol HaMoed very, very soon. Also, we just released a brand new Incredible Kids video, so come with me and watch my adventure going to visit the incredible school TAL Academy in New York, and I interviewed these kids. They all have different language-based learning differences, growing and learning in such a unique way, and I had the best day ever there. And now I finally have compiled that all into one video as a gift to you all, so go check it out and let me know what you think. Our Incredible Kids fundraiser campaign called Raise the Volume ikraisecom is live and going strong and we've already had kid raisers. Families pull in so much valuable funding for Incredible Kids. I invite you all to make a team page and we are going to be announcing the incentives, the prizes, shortly. So sign up for a page, go to joinikraisecom and you will be part of our prizes and our contests and, most importantly, you will be part of building an organization that is completely dedicated to making sure that you guys, you kids, have every single thing that you need to grow up feeling important and believing in yourselves, and that's what we do here every single thing that you need to grow up feeling important and believing in yourselves and that's what we do here every single day at Incredible Kids.
Speaker 1:Today's episode was inspired by a boy named Avi. He is our first interviewee. Avi reached out to me and shared with me a personal story about losing his beloved grandfather. You'll hear very shortly how special his grandfather was to him. Avi is a boy who obviously has a very sensitive soul, how it affected him and how he feels this could be helpful to other children who've been in similar situations or know people who have been in situations like that, unfortunately. And then I decided that loss is such a big topic, a scary topic, a topic that we don't talk about a lot because we don't want people to be afraid, and I decided that I was going to bring on a very special woman who wrote an important book on this topic. So you are going to hear from Mrs Sarah Miriam Gross, who is going to share with us about her book called Invisible Tribe for children who experienced the loss of one of their parents, and really she's going to explain how this is a book that could belong in anyone's home and in anyone's school, why it's important for all of us to hear about that. I for sure gained a ton from speaking to Avi and to Sour Miriam, and I hope that all of you feel the same by the time you're finished it, and we all can learn a little bit how to empathize, to understand a little bit of what others are going through around us us.
Speaker 1:Joining us now is Avi from London, england, and I'm so excited to introduce him to all of you, so please enjoy this incredible, insightful conversation. Hello, hi, I get to meet everybody. This is so fun. First of all, can you hear me? Okay, I hear you. Some computers have better built-in mics than others. Like I, obviously have this professional one, so at least one of them sounds super clear, but one day we'll set you up with a professional mic. What do you say? I said I'm made for the professional life. Okay, to the one day you should be Zoha to have a professional mic. So, hi, avi, this is so exciting. Can you introduce yourself to everybody Hi?
Speaker 2:my name is Avi. I'm 14 years old. I like to bake, sing and play piano.
Speaker 1:Okay, sounds like a really, really awesome, incredible kid over here. And Avi, where are you from? I'm from London. The more you talk, the more clear it will become right. Born in London.
Speaker 2:Born in London, lived in London all my life and still live in London.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Have you seen the world outside of London? Have you been around? Yeah, we've been to Israel. We've been to America a few times. Actually, I've never been to England, been to different parts of Europe, but not England. But I secretly think that I am English, and you could ask any of my kids. There are times when they just want to shut me in a closet because I start speaking with an English accent and they want nothing to do with me when I do that, not because they have anything against England, just because they think I'm horrible at it. Anyways, okay, you reached out and first of all, whenever I find out about listeners to the podcast from abroad, outside of our bubble in the United States, which is quite large and diverse, but I get very excited. So when I hear that there's listeners in England, that just really makes me happy.
Speaker 1:On the other side of the pond, right Isn't the Atlantic Ocean? So you know, you reached out to me with a very specific idea which I thought about and I was like, wow, that is really big and brave and mature. And again, you are 14 years old, so it doesn't surprise me, you're no little lad anymore. But at the same time, it's important and the topic is a topic of loss, specifically about your grandfather. Before we talk about who your grandfather was and what it means to you, can you just tell me a little bit about why you thought of this topic?
Speaker 2:So I was introduced to Incredible Kids from the solo three to six. I know you've heard of it, I've heard of it. I saw it on your podcast. I was looking on it and I saw Incredible Kids. I go, oh, this looks interesting and I press on it and I start listening to it and it puts me to bed every night, by the way. Oh, that's wonderful. I was like I would love to be interviewed. That would be so cool. And you always say email me today at iKidsPodcastgmailcom. So I emailed you.
Speaker 1:So if I say it enough times, you'll eventually be like okay, let me just see what happens if I email. Wow, wonderful, how long have you been listening? A few months now, okay, amazing. So I guess you were trying to think like, what can I be interviewed about? And I was like perfect, it's like it's good this idea that you came up with. Okay, so tell us a little bit about your grandfather and your relationship with him, and then why you chose to speak about him today.
Speaker 2:He was a very special man. He was always so kind and caring. We happened to be very close. He was always there, he always gave time to us, like always there when you needed him, and I thought why not share this with the world?
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. Did he live in your neighborhood in London? Yeah, he lived in the same neighborhood. Lucky, lucky for him, lucky for you. Yeah, it's really nice to grow up near grandparents. What was his name? His Hebrew name or English?
Speaker 2:name. I don't know both grandparents. What was his name? His hebrew name or english name? I don't know both. So his english name was tommy and his hebrew name was shimon, and he was nifted from an illness called cancer and when he was like very close to death, they changed his name to mea shimon. And then, a year after, my mom had my brother, his little baby sh. He was actually born with only four fingers on each hand. Baruch Hashem is the cutest thing.
Speaker 1:So wait, that was after your grandfather passed. Your baby was born a year later.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, he's named after him. Wow, shimon, we couldn't call him actually Meir Shimon, because my other grandfather's called Meir. Okay, that makes sense. And he's still alive for Hashem.
Speaker 1:I want to go back for a second to your grandfather. So what did you call him Like? What did the kids call him? So it was an unusual one, poppy, very unusual. You know it's adorable. It's not so unusual. I've heard much more interesting Poppy's so cute. You know that's a very big loss to anybody. Anyone losing someone dear to them is big. And I think we should just say, avi, that everybody here has heard of people who you know have passed away. Now, sometimes the person is very close to their heart and their family or their community, and sometimes it's just from a story or from you know what they know around, and obviously the closer the person is to you, the more painful it could be right. So what do you want to say about that?
Speaker 2:So it was very painful at the start. Of course it still is painful. And then Hashem gave us a present the power to forget. Not to forget, of course, the thing, but like to forget such sadness that we won't be sad all the time. We still remember him and it's obviously a very sad thing, but we learn to move on. The present is that you have the power to move on and you can just move on with everyday life and it doesn't haunt you for the rest of your life. You know what happened. Move on, whoa. And you know he's there, he's in Sharmayim and he's with you and he's watching you.
Speaker 1:I'm sure he's very proud. You know there's an organization in America it's possible they're beyond America, I don't know. It's called Lynx. It was created to help people deal with loss that's in their own family. Like you know, losing a parent is a very, very difficult thing for children and of course, that's a whole nother level of pain that's really real for people. And they put out a song this year with AB Rattenberg and Joey Newcomb. It's called the Neshama Lives Forever. Do you know that song? I've never heard of it. You should listen to it. You could listen to it on your 24-6.
Speaker 1:I love music. It's such a beautiful song. It's very interesting because sometimes when you think of a song about someone who passed away, you would imagine that it would be a very sad song and a song with, like very slow violin and you know what I mean Like that very like emotional type of music. Like that very like emotional type of music. But what I love about this song is that it's so upbeat and it's so hopeful and it reminds the person who's the listener and whoever is going through grief right, grief is what we call the process of being extremely sad about loss. So it reminds you that there's hope.
Speaker 1:And what is the hope? The hope here is that you just said that the neshama lives forever, right? So, even though it's so painful and so sad and nobody's saying that's not true, but the comfort I love how you're saying it's like the gift, it's the present that Hashem gives you is the ability to move on when you start recognizing different signs, and one of the things to think about is the words of this song the Neshama Lives Forever. I'll play the song, obviously, when you hear the podcast, I'll stick it in over here. Okay, one, two, three go. The Torah says, and we believe only the goof comes to an end.
Speaker 2:But the Neshama lives forever, forever and ever and ever.
Speaker 1:But the Neshama lives forever, and forever is a long, long time. The Neshama lives forever and ever and ever, and that's literally the word. To get very spiritual, we call it Nitzchias. That's what we're all about. Now. You have to really get into that deep zone to understand that, but, like you said, it takes a little bit of time. How long ago did your grandfather pass away?
Speaker 2:he passed away three years ago and he had the illness cancer for two years. I only found out about that he had the illness two or three, four weeks before he died, wow.
Speaker 1:So then it was kind of like kept a secret, yeah, because they didn't want us to like freak out.
Speaker 2:We have also cousins that also came to the ship my mom's, it's my mom's father, my mom's brother lives in manchester, four hours away from london. So they came down. They were staying us for a week and I think one of the hardest things was during covid. He had cancer, so we had to social distance. We couldn't like hug. Yes, like we visited them every Shabbos, but they were very like cautious about it.
Speaker 1:We weren't allowed to go near them, right, because he was very like prone to, you know, probably catching things and high risk. You know, it's the time when he probably would have appreciated the most bonding with his loved ones, and then he had to be separate from them to protect his health.
Speaker 2:I remember in COVID we always used to go to their back garden and we got like they surprised us. Basically, they brought us like a playground, a swing set, a trampoline and a slide so we can like always come and watch it on Shabbos afternoon, just to like play with that, like play there and not be bored.
Speaker 1:And probably at the same time, even if they were social distancing, they got to watch you, yeah, and they probably gave them so much nachas to see you just enjoying yourselves. So you still have a grandmother. Yeah, beautiful, yeah, baruch Hashem. That's really, really special, and I'm sure you guys are very connected and it really helps her very much.
Speaker 2:So my mom had to sit Shiva obviously for seven days. When she was sitting Shiva, she obviously wasn't around because she was at my grandparent's house. They were all sitting together. So like we always had a babysitter, which was really hard because like we never got to see our mother and, come on, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I find that obviously. You know, when somebody's parent dies, they have to sit Shiva. That's the whole story in itself. But when somebody's grandparent dies, there's nothing different for the grandchild, right Like there's no Shiva process for the grandchild, there's no Avelos, there's no laws against. You know, listening to music going to parties.
Speaker 1:you almost might feel like maybe my feelings don't matter. There's nothing built in for the grandchildren, right? Sometimes you'll have the grandchild you know get up and speak at the shloshim or something, but the process is not designed for grandchildren, and so, therefore, it's important that I think that's why, avi, quite honestly, I'm so happy that you wanted to talk about this subject, because how often do we talk about what it's like for the grandchild you?
Speaker 1:know, like it could be a very lonely process because your mother's grieving right Rightfully so. She has her own stuff, she has to support her siblings, her mother, she has to feel her own pain. And then it's like what about the kids? Okay, just make sure they have a good babysitter. We'll order them pizza. Does that help?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I have a radar for, like, extra sensitive kids and I feel like you have that kind of sensitive personality in the best way.
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm not wrong, right? No, you're not wrong. It probably shows up in many areas of your life. I was in primary school and then, like in the year that he was died still now, but less effective when, like you know, like some people are like sometimes nasty to other people. So when someone like was nasty to me and they called me a name, like I took it like more sure, but now, like if they did it, then I would be like taken aback.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean yeah, it stung, because when you have a sensitive personality and nature, a quote-unquote little insult is not little, it really burns. How's that changed now?
Speaker 2:so, yeah, I learned to cook with it. I learned that, like people who think like they're probably just having a hard time, if they're calling you like names, just don't take it personally. Wow, I love that. Also when my mom was in alveolus so she wasn't allowed to listen to music, so we weren't really allowed to listen to music around her, which is really annoying, because I love music, like I listen to music the whole time. I sing. As I mentioned, I sometimes play piano. I'm learning, so it was like annoying happens to be musical, so very much calms me down and like, relaxes me.
Speaker 1:I 100% can relate to that and lucky that you could use music to help you when you are feeling sad. You didn't have that restriction on you. It could actually be very helpful.
Speaker 2:Tell me some of your favorite memories from your papi, so every time we left the house, he always like came out the house to say bye and then, like it was a thing he did when we were really young, he always like came out and shook the car. So we were all in the car and he like shook it.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's like the first thing that comes to your mind. So you close the door and then just like shake the car. Yeah, a big guy no, he wasn't so tall. That's hilarious. I should do that to my kids the next time. I buckle everyone in Like just push the whole car. When you think of those memories, those moments, like the saying goodbye to him and his silly antic like that, you know, does it still provide like that warm feeling three years later? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Also, it was really like annoying and like sad, because you know I said that we go. We went every Shabbos and so so the two Shabbosim two weeks before he died we didn't go to the house, so I hadn't seen him for two weeks. And then I was like then he died, so we didn't see him for two weeks. No one was expecting it. Did you feel guilty about that? Not guilty, it's just regretting it. Like we should have gone. I don't know why we did that.
Speaker 1:Right, but think about it. Why do you think you didn't go? You probably didn't go because you were doing something fun. Yeah, probably yeah. And honestly, as much as it's sad for you that you didn't have those moments, I'm sure that's exactly what he wanted you to be doing Just enjoying life. Mm-hmm, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like a week before he died we drove there and then a family friend of ours who all those are very close with my grandfather she came to the car and we were like outside the house and I was like I'm going with, I'm going into the house to see him and she said you don't want to go in. I was like why not? And I was like crying and she was like you have a choice. You can either go in there I remember him as ill and sick or you can go in, remembering he was always there. I remember him like you know what I mean like in his better days.
Speaker 1:But I feel like, ultimately, you do remember that. Yeah, you do remember that. I will tell you that I had a similar feeling. I have that very like sensitive kind of personality where things really hit me hard. And when my grandfather passed, I was not your age, I was older already, but he hadn't been well for a couple of years. It was very hard to see him in that state and of course we visited him, even though he wasn't responsive or whatever.
Speaker 1:But I will tell you that now that you know a bunch of years have passed since then I can honestly say that I remember how he prepared his tuna fish for us. Now he gave us these big hugs. He always had his arms spread out really wide and I remember, like all those, like his funny laugh and the way he moved his shoulders up and down when he laughed. Like those are my, those really are my. We call them core memories, like the things that really stay in, like a special part of your brain and in your heart, right Once the edge of the grief, you know, wears off, you enter further stages and then you just have these memories and of course you could still be sad and of course, you can still miss your you know grandparent or whoever the person is, but then the things that remain are really the things that you loved about the person all along. Hopefully, those are the things that will stick, like your grandfather shaking the car. You'll be, you'll smile when you think of that.
Speaker 2:You know he also had like all nicknames for like every, like sibling of mine, all his grandchildren.
Speaker 1:Like he called me avush, he called my brother pet, and that's what you'll get together and talk about when you talk about your grandfather and all the things that are special about him. When you immediately learned that your grandfather had passed, you touched upon it before you said how it was a little shocking, right.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:You want to explain how that was for you right away.
Speaker 2:My mom came home. Every day it was like the same question Is he alive, is he alive, is he alive, is he alive, is he alive? And then they like came home a little different. So, like my other grandmother from the other side, my dad's mom was babysitting us. She came and she said mommy and daddy are going to be home soon. Right, I went to bed late, like every single night, because I couldn't fall asleep. I woke up and she was still in the house. So something's going on. And my parents get back, they like the acting a bit different. And then I say is he alive? And they call my siblings. And then they told us how did you react? I was crying, I was like really so sad. Also because it was Hanukkah. I forgot to mention it was like the second day of Hanukkah when he passed away and my school was doing a choir and I had a solo and I was like I was like excited for my mother to come and she could listen to music.
Speaker 2:So she couldn't even come. It was like a traumatizing event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also like that's not a small thing. Think about it First of all. You were what like 11 years old or 10 at the time. Right, for a 10 year old, that's a very big deal. And again, the feelings of kids are going to be different than adults. They could really understand the situation and they could also really care about their solo. That's coming up that day, like that's really important, of course, with all of the sadness. Do you remember at any point, let's say in the week or in the month following, what was something that was particularly comforting for you? Is there anything that you remember?
Speaker 2:So my teacher also a shout out, mrs Larnac. She was always so nice, she was like open, she was like you can come talk to me. My grandmother, my parents, my best friend, all I spoke to I felt because I spoke out I took it a lot better because I didn't keep something in my like shed, like I'm not like a secret person.
Speaker 1:That's wonderful. That is so wonderful Because you realize that's such a gift that you're willing to share.
Speaker 1:You don't want to be the kind of person that just tells everything to everyone all day, but I don't think that's you. It doesn't seem like that type, but you seem like you have your people that you can confide in. When there's something on your chest, those are important shout outs. I also want to say that whenever somebody shouts out a teacher, I get so happy because you used to be a teacher, yes, but also, like teachers work really hard, and what people don't realize about teachers is that, above all usually I think this is true about most teachers Above all, they want you to do well, they want you to listen in class, they want you to be emotionally healthy and happy and they care about you as a whole person. So I love hearing about teachers who go out of their way to notice when something is amiss, right, when something is different about. I'm using all these words, by the way, that I never use, because I feel like you're very proper.
Speaker 2:You have a really good English accent.
Speaker 1:Should I start talking in it for the rest of the program? Whatever you want, okay, cheerio, I'll pick it up. You'll see it will come and go. It will come and go. You never know. Like, by the way, like with accents in general, like sometimes they get so mixed up I don't even know what's going to come out of my mouth. So it's always a surprise.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Shira, my older sister, and all my other siblings. They're like cheering me on to come on to this podcast and I was like, yeah, I'll go on.
Speaker 1:And my best friend, david, and everyone wonderful, and they all need to listen to this. They're going to be so proud to know you. I consider this to be like brave when somebody comes on, but really it's so normal, right? Yeah, are you nervous right now? No, just a bit nervous to like share, but like you know what I mean. By the way, if you were completely not nervous, it would be like interesting. I'm nervous every time and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better. I'm always a little bit nervous. Well, when you go live, when I go live, or even like not right this minute, I'm fine, but like right before I come on, like before I meet someone I like have to like.
Speaker 2:It's funny, I was listening last night to one of your podcasts, improv, do you remember? Improv one yeah, yeah, one of the best. And you said, I also get really nervous when I come on to it.
Speaker 1:I do. Yeah, you remember that. I said that then in the podcast. Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1:You know how I end off my podcasts. I always want you to have an opportunity to kind of like generalize your lesson for kids. So if somebody is listening to this episode and they experienced almost exactly what you did a grandparent who passed and it was hard for them I'm so happy they can feel validated. But if there's anyone listening who's experiencing any kind of emotional pain you know some sort of sadness in their life that's hard for them to deal with. What advice can you give to kids out there who have something that they're dealing with?
Speaker 2:So if they're like in the same situation as me, for example, like they've lost a grandparent or anyone, they're there and they're watching you from Shemayim and I'm sure they're really proud of you. And what I did actually to connect more to my grandfather is I say a bracha out loud so and I let people like I kind of let people say amin to my bracha, so that's my thing for my grandfather.
Speaker 1:That's beautiful. And what's his full name? That, if anybody wants to have him in mind the next time they make a bracha.
Speaker 2:Meir Shimon ben Avram Yaakov, that's who I'm named after Meir Shimon ben Avram Yaakov yakov.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I'm gonna write that down now because when I go eat lunch I'm gonna have him in mind when I say my bracha mayor shimon ben avraham yakov yakov. Oh, so that's the avi that you're named after. Is your name avram yakov? Both, yeah, beautiful, what a name. Gorgeous. I wonder how yitzhak feels about that. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like the avos, okay, for I guess, somebody who's going through a challenge, not even related to loss, necessarily something that is hard for them. What would you tell those kids?
Speaker 2:Just hang in there. You can get through this and when it ends a few years later, you'll get back into it. When my grandfather died.
Speaker 1:I felt that the world was like crashing down. But now I'm here, smile on my face, the most beautiful smile. Wow, I love that. When you feel like the world is crashing down, I feel like you should be a songwriter. Thank you, I want to be. Have you written any songs? No, I want to. I mean, you said you sing, you said you play piano and you just came up with lyrics. Right now, when the world is crashing down on you, I can already hear it. I can hear the harp in the background. Avi, this has been so amazing. Thank you for really coming up with this entire topic and sharing a piece of yourself with all of us.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. It means a lot, and I can't wait for the whole England to hear this and the whole rest of the world. So what school do you go to? Hasmonean? Yeah, how do you know, I consider myself to be like a detective. I want everyone in your school listening to Incredible Kids.
Speaker 1:That's your job, Avi, I will try. Have a wonderful day and remember you're an incredible kid. Thank you, Bye, Bye. Incredible kids out there, I need your help. You have the opportunity to create your very own page on the campaign website. By going to joinikraisecom, you can sign up to create a family team page. This is your chance to do something that is going to change the course of history in order for incredible kids to be able to grow and expand.
Speaker 1:More content, more podcasts, more videos, more Zoom calls, more live programs and you play a very important role, because you're not just saying I'm raising money for some I don't know organization, that you don't even really know what they do. You're saying this is Incredible Kids. I feel more incredible every single time I join an Incredible Kids program or I watch an Incredible Kids video or I listen to an Incredible Kids podcast. Tell them what it means to you, how you feel about yourself, how you're growing, how you're dominating more, how you're learning better, how you're interacting with friends better, how you're connected to Hashem better, how you're feeling more proud to be a Jew. It's really up to you and therefore I ask you to join me in helping me raise money so that incredible kids can go from a very nice, beautiful organization to something that is going to change the future of the way that kids learn and grow. You have a voice. You are so special. You have so much in you that is shining forth. That can all be possible with incredible kids fueling incredible kids. So get working.
Speaker 1:Go to joinikraisecom and sign up for your own page. There will be prizes, there are contests. That's all coming soon, but for now, just sign up so you're in and you can join us, and there's so much more in store. I am so excited and I can't wait to share it with all of you. I want to just thank you all for your support and for your help, and together we are going to build something incredible. And now please enjoy this important conversation with Mrs Sarah Miriam Gross. Live from Israel. Hi, I'm so excited to have you as a special guest on this episode of Incredible Kids Podcast. Let us know how you want us to address you here, how I should address you, so the kids listening gets to hear from you and about you. Just a little introduction.
Speaker 3:Well, don't need any fancy titles. My name is Sarah Miriam Gross and I'm a writer on Mom. I grew up in New York, in Manhattan, and I live in Eretz, yisrael now for many years and I'm so honored to be on your podcast because I see the incredible abodes Hashem that your Tehillim army and all your episodes are doing, generating truly an army of mitzvahs, and I'm just happy to be here for a part of it.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you, and it's so cool that you're a writer. I think that writing is an art that a lot of kids are forced to do in school, and when somebody chooses to go on in their life as a writer, it's a very cool thing because obviously it does something for you, and no one becomes a writer because they had to become a writer. So I think that that's a very cool thing about yourself and I'd love to hear a little bit about that. In our conversation Today, our topic is talking to all different kids out there about what happens when somebody that they love or that they know or that they've heard of passes away, and then there is something that we call loss, like that person's no longer with us here in this world, and what does that mean to you and how does that have something to do with your writings? You have a book, and I want to kind of hear a little bit about your background and the book.
Speaker 3:I never thought I would write about loss, even though loss touched my life very deeply. When I was in first grade I lost my father and it was sudden and that was a big shock for our family. I've written many stories for children and articles for adults, and I write books, but I never thought of writing about loss. There was my life and my heart in one box and my professional work in another, and then, eight years ago, the two met. I'm on an email list for writers and Sarah Rifko-Cohn, the director and founder of Lynx Family, posted that she was looking for writers who had personal experience with loss to write stories for the younger group Kids Connect, and this publication comes out five times a year for families who have loss in their close family.
Speaker 3:This is specifically for children who have lost one or both parents Stories, articles, interviews, tips, even jokes that just from one yasam to another we get.
Speaker 3:It's the club. Nobody wants to join, but if someone is a member, if Hashem has sent this test to their life, it is so beautiful that this organization exists and other ones like it, like or Hadassah in Eretz, yisroel, and that there are magazines and groups and events, parties, trips because when I was a girl, there was really nothing. My brother had what they called a big brother, who came to like do fun things with him, but I didn't see in any stories I read anything that echoed my life. I didn't know anyone else in a similar situation and so I just felt very alone. And when I had this opportunity to write these stories, I felt like Hashem was saying you've spent years working on your writing, you've spent years processing and thinking about what happened in your family, and now I'm going to bring it all together and you're going to write the stories and the book that you really would have wanted and would have benefited from as a kid.
Speaker 1:I love finding out about people who had a personal experience. Something happened to you, and it was, in this case, not an easy one at all, very painful, and even years later you're using that experience to fix the world in some way fix it even for someone else. That's so selfless. So what's the name of your book?
Speaker 3:My book is called Invisible Tribe Stories of Strength and Encouragement for Children Coping with the Loss of a Parent. The title came about because I was in conversation with someone, actually someone who's not a yesom, someone who was adopted as a child, which is their own kind of challenge and hard situation. We were discussing this very powerful and challenging experience we had each been through how, from the outside, you really can't tell sometimes what people have in common. It could be two people, two children, have each lost I don't know a grandparent recently and you don't know when you look at them, it could be two people were both adopted and you don't know. And I said in passing yeah, we're like an invisible tribe. We're a tribe because we, like, have something very central in common.
Speaker 1:Tribe is like something's the same about all of you, so you're like a group.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're like a group that we kind of belong together, but it's invisible because from the outside you can't tell. I've been writing these stories for eight years and once I had six and a half years of stories I said I have enough for a book. And then a different part of my journey began, which was hiring a wonderful illustrator, dina Ackerman, and going through the process of turning stories into a book.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Now that you have this book, that's really meant for people who are part of this invisible tribe, right? Do you find that other people enjoy reading it also, other kids who maybe are not, you know, in this invisible tribe, baruch Hashem, because they do have two parents.
Speaker 3:So it's interesting because this book is on a sensitive topic. I wanted to make sure that I got letters from Rabanim Paskamos for the book. People who don't know who in the world is Sarah Miriam Gross would have more confidence buying it for Yossam in their life. And one of the Rabbanim who I gave an early copy of the book to was Rabbi David Goldwasser.
Speaker 1:He's a very special rabbi.
Speaker 3:And a very kind one. He took time, he read the book and he really was very, very moved by it. And he told me which he also wrote in his Haskamah that this book should be in the library of every Vesiyako, yeshiva and Shul. When Rav Goldwasser said that, I was like a little stunned because here I thought I'd done what I set out to do. I'd written a book for Yisemite to give chizuk to give some laughs. It's a book full of adventures and misadventures. It's not just heavy, heavy, and all of a sudden here was Rabbi Goldwasser telling me, but there's a secondary mission to this book. It's a book that will help Claudius Roel become more sensitive, learn a little better how to speak, to relate, to, feel for and with a yasum.
Speaker 1:It's really giving us the space. We can't really have empathy without getting a little bit of a peek into what it might be like to live that day-to-day life that so many of these kids are living.
Speaker 3:Right, and we know how important it is to Hashem because five parsios in the Torah speak about being careful with the feelings and possessions of widows and orphans, almanos and yisomim.
Speaker 1:God loves the widow, the orphan and the blind, old and the needy.
Speaker 3:This is very important to him. How will we say the right things, do the right things, unless we have a taste? So I think the book will be used in different ways. In a class where there's a child who's lost a parent, the teacher might, let's say, share one of the stories and open it up to a class discussion talking about the kid's feelings and about what happened and about so-and-so is going to come back to class after Shiva or whatever. How are we going to receive them? What are we going to say? Is it ever okay to ask questions? Maybe we should only ask the teacher our questions.
Speaker 3:Someone said to me you're thinking very deeply into this. Kids are just going to like the adventures because I have a sense of humor, and so, even though you might say, oh, come on, sarah, miriam, like, how did you weave humor into this book? But life has so much to laugh about. And so, even in hard situations, I have like a story about a boy whose father was nifter and he decides he's going to be the Abba in the house. So the faucet breaks and he's going to fix it, because Abba used to always fix things in the house. Just one problem he didn't know he had to shut off the water main first. Okay, so you're going to imagine water flying all over, chaos, there's messy situations, funny situations and cute illustrations. I wanted it to give strength, I wanted it to give some laughs, I wanted it to help people feel understood. I've had almanals read it and tell me that it helped them understand their children better.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So you're saying the mother, let's say somebody lost their husband and they bought this book for their kids and when they were reading it with their kids, they said, wow, now I understand, Because it's a different type of pain losing a husband and then for the kids losing their father.
Speaker 3:It's like a different experience right and therapists have bought it for you know, for some of the children they may help. One of the stories talks about like a therapy session to give kids a little view of what it might be to talk to someone who's a professional about what was hurting them in their heart. Anyway, I like to say I wrote the book. I hope no one needs. I'm looking forward to Mashiach coming and wiping away all our tears. I'll be very glad for my book to be obsolete immediately.
Speaker 1:And that, by the way, just shows how in it you are, for the right reasons, because when you work so hard on something, sometimes you're like wait, but I'm so proud. You should be proud of it, by the way, but I'm saying, like you know, more than being proud of it, with the coming of Mashiach, you're happy to burn all the copies of them you know, Maybe someone will keep it in the library saying once upon a time, Klal Yisroel used to have surahs.
Speaker 1:Exactly just to remember it. And the illustrations are great and if you appreciate good writing, that in itself could be something exciting. Just like you said, the adventure piece of it is interesting. We have a big audience of kids listening who may know somebody who's experienced loss or maybe they don't marach hashem and they're not affected by it so much. What should kids know? If they do know somebody who has lost a parent? Maybe it was this year or maybe it was five years ago. It's a very big question and I know that you're probably going to say there's going to be many answers, but can you try to give advice to kids who might know somebody else in this situation?
Speaker 3:Sure. First of all, even though your life goes on, after you hear this hard news about your friend, their life is different From then on until 120, they're carrying a package, a heavy bag, that you can't see. So, first of all, know they're carrying it, even if it looks like they're skipping along right next to you. They might be skipping along carrying a bag that weighs like 100 pounds and they're doing their best to keep up. The best way to be a good friend is to treat a yasam very normally.
Speaker 3:I'm writing an article interviewing teenage Yisroel for Mishpacha magazine. I started getting feedback from teenage readers and I realized they had a message for Klal Yisroel. I thought maybe I'm the right person to help bring it to Klal Yisroel, because nobody's putting a mic except maybe an incredible kid next to these teenage Yisroel and saying how are we doing? What are we doing? Well, what could we do better? You have any tips for teachers and Rebbe's of classes? You were saying to treat them normally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so one of the things many of these Yosemite men said is when someone is super kind or taking extra time to think of exactly the most sensitive words to say to them so that they're almost tripping on their own tongue, the Yisselmim feel they're being treated like a Nebuch and they're being essentially told you are so different, I have to treat you like fragile crystal. And then they feel like so nobody could be just my normal friend, like what happened just to the regular. Want to go play something, want to go out and see a show you know? Want to take a walk? Let's meet on Shabbos. What happened to all that? Keep up a normal friendship. If you're the type of person who loves to go into details about you know all the amazing I don't know cakes that your talented mother likes to make, and your friend has lost her mother, please consider toning it down because she doesn't have a mommy in her kitchen in their house anymore.
Speaker 1:Let's say, you're about to say something about your mother's chocolate cake that she made you for your birthday and you're like my mom, and then you stop. You know what I'm saying. Like sometimes it's okay. Like, if you find yourself talking about your mother, I feel like I just I know that I've been in this situation before. That's why I'm saying that, cause I've been in a situation where I'm trying to be sensitive to somebody, so I don't really want to talk about, let's say, it's somebody's mother, so I would say like my mom, and then I would stop myself, cause I'm like, oh, no, I shouldn to be very clear.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying never talk about your parents. That would be treating them in a way that's not normal. Right, they know that people have parents. They started out with two. Also, it's nothing wrong with saying oh, you want to go to the mall, my mother will drive us. You know you don't talk about my mom. Oh, someone from my mother will drive us. You know you don't talk about my mom, someone from my family will transport it.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, you can talk about things in a normal way. All I'm saying is, if you're the type to normally, like, go into all the details about you know your mother's wonderful yumtuk cakes, for you know five minutes. Or if you're the type you know a boy who's going to be talking about, like how your Abba just you know I don't know published a safer or he just did who knows what some amazing thing. And like you know how gishmak it was to learn with him, just like, think about if that's the right kid to tell it to, if he's not even sure who's going to come to Abbasubanim with him each week. That's what I'm saying. You know, have a balance between treating them normally and being careful not to go overboard when you're talking about the parent they lost.
Speaker 1:So important. I think it's so valuable to have this understanding so that we just become more sensitive people. Because I will say, even without the topic of, let's say, someone who lost a parent, even if somebody, let's say, is in a wheelchair, should I go over to somebody in a wheelchair and tell them something about dance practice that I was at and go on about that for 10 minutes? You know what I'm saying. It's about being sensitive in so many areas of our lives. Maybe somebody doesn't have children, right? This is something adults have to know about. Again, they're getting together with their friends. Their next-door neighbors don't have children. I need to be careful with how much I share, you know, and what I'm sharing, but I also want them to feel normal. If kids work on this skill now in different areas of their life, they'll become people who are more sensitive and understanding toward whatever life throws them, or whatever neighbors Hashem give them one day and whatever classmates they have throws them, or whatever neighbors Hashem give them one day and whatever classmates they have students.
Speaker 3:They have workmates. They have. It never ends right. Hashem gives a different package of blessings and tests to each person. You don't even always know, when you're speaking to someone, what's in this person's package. So, from a young age, training yourself to be sensitive that not everyone has all the blessings you have, of course, that not everyone has all the blessings you have, of course, not everyone has all the tests you have It'll really help you be Mekayim.
Speaker 1:Yes, 100%. That's beautiful. Where can people buy your book?
Speaker 3:So my book is available in bookstores and also through Amazon and Manucha and other websites. It's available in America, in England and in Israel now, and if anyone listening is from South Africa or Australia, please reach out, because I'd like to get the book to stores in your community as well. So cool, and I thank you for the opportunity to talk about this a bit, and I really I wish everyone besoros tovos. This should be the most irrelevant episode that Incredible Kids has ever made.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean. But I also think what's important, because there's one thing that I want to say is that every person experiences pain differently and every person experiences sadness differently, and every person shows their sadness differently on the outside. So I met a kid recently who lost his mother about a couple years ago, and when you're talking with this kid, you forget about it because he's so cute and he's so full of life and he has the greatest personality, but it's still there, like you, so full of life and he has the greatest personality, but it's still there, like you mentioned before, and I love how you said it, it's really something that's with him until 120. Even if, with the right coping skills, it's still his package, even as an adult. When I'm talking to this child, I want to be sensitive, I want to remember. There's so many things. So you giving us a book like this to the Jewish people is such a gift. So I just want to thank you.
Speaker 3:You're welcome. It was certainly as much for seven-year-old me as it was for Klaue Sroel. I really got as much out of it as other people are. One thing I'll mention just on that point about people handling sadness and loss differently Lynx asked me quite a few years ago to create a family, a made-up family okay, fictional family where each one of the kids responds to loss in a different way, but a way that's what you would call stereotypical meaning. There are like a certain number of very classic responses and ways people react to loss. I call the family the peppercorn family. Each one of the kids has a different response. So just to give you a taste of the spectrum, you've got like the oldest, aliza, who is like life goes on as normal and we are a happy, normal family. She just doesn't want to even relate really to what happened, and that's one way. Then there's the normal and it's totally typical.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But then there's her younger sister, leah, who is constantly pulling the family back down memory lane, even when they're shopping. Oh remember, mommy used to buy this brand of potato starch for Pesach. She said the other one wasn't good. I'm making this up, but you understand, every time there's anything that could possibly be connected back to their mother, she's doing it because she's that very sentimental type, you know. Then there's a different sister, temi, let's say she just forgot how to be young. She feels like she's almost a senior citizen and she got very, very serious, like almost too serious, about her Yiddishkeit. You can't get the Sefer Tehillim out of her hands because she got really old in her mind before her time and feels like I better use every minute for mitzvahs and she's kind of forgotten how to be just a happy kid who plays. And that's also another classic way that sometimes kids respond. Anyway, whoever reads the book will find yeah, it's all the kids.
Speaker 3:But what I'm saying is as wide as the spectrum is in the book. It's even wider in real life. Just know that. However your friend, neighbor, classmate is responding, that too is understandable. By treating them normally, you're going to be a good friend.
Speaker 1:Wow, thank you for giving us a peek into what that might be like, and all on the road to us being more empathetic people, people who have a greater capacity to feel other people's experience, and we all want to be givers givers of our hearts, givers of ourselves, people who understand other people's needs and do it in the way that we can. So many people want to do that. We just don't always have the tools and the knowledge, so that's what we're learning here today.
Speaker 3:One crucial point is when you want to give, the first step is to find out what someone's actually looking to receive. Sometimes we think because it says we say, well, what would I like? That must be what they would like. But it doesn't actually work that way. Just like you want to be given what you need at that time, they want to be given what they need at the time. Maybe find out from your teacher or you see, by based on what they're saying. Until you find that out, you have to learn more before you can be a smart giver and a smart friend.
Speaker 1:Such a good point. Thank you so much all the way from RIT Israel for making the time to do this with us and in Mertz Hashem, there's hopefully going to be a lot more kids out there who will, you know, be able to live out the and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and. Have a beautiful and incredible day.
Speaker 3:You too. Thanks for the chance and hello to all the incredible kids.
Speaker 1:Keep up the great work and now it's time for homework. Oh, come on, not that kind. This is not going to be an assignment that is due immediately or due at all ever, because really, I just really find it important that the next time you are in a situation where you are with a person who you know is going through something hard, just stop and think. Stop and think how you think the best way to treat them would be. Who can you talk to about your relationship with this person, how you can be the best kind of friend possible to somebody who has experienced some form of loss which is so sad, or for somebody who's going through something entirely different, also very challenging, and you're not sure how to be the best kind of friend, how to give to them, how to be sensitive to them. So stop and think, and part of thinking is also who can I ask? Who can help me in this situation? Because you don't want to be the person who's trying so hard and yet comes across looking like they don't really care when you really do care. So it's just something for us to always contemplate and think about and then, of course, practice being thankful for all of the amazing gifts that we do have in our lives, which is so hard to do, sometimes in the busyness of it all and in the hecticness and in the regular everyday arguments and spats that people tend to have, and sometimes it's just hard to stop and appreciate the people who we love.
Speaker 1:On a lighter note, I hope that everyone has the most beautiful Pesach prep. Go check out that newest video that I told you about earlier about my adventures at Tal Academy, and join us for Tehillim Army Thursday nights. All information is at incrediblekidsorg, and go ahead and rate this episode, subscribe. Give it a five-star rating because your reviews help this podcast grow. And, of course, if you haven't yet signed up for the Incredible Kids campaign, what are you even waiting for? Go to ikraisecom and I'm so happy that you're all part of our incredible community of kids and everybody. Have a wonderful rest of your day.
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Speaker 1:Kids Podcast. Thanks for listening and remember you are all incredible kids.
